Sometimes the questions that philosophers ask upset many people. After Socrates explains to others why he is wiser than they are, Socrates knows that he is “hateful both to him and to many others. After this, then, I kept going to one after another, all the while perceiving with pain and fear that I was becoming hated” (Plato, 21e). Socrates knew that the questions he was asking were angering others, but philosophers must try to obtain knowledge at all costs. In Socrates’ real life, the Athenians get fed up with him and put him on trial, but in Aristophanes’ Clouds, Strepsiades gets so angry at Socrates for turning his son against him, he lights the thinkery on fire, yelling, “Someone bring me a torch! I too will make one of them pay the penalty …show more content…
In The Clouds, Strepsiades greets his son after being taught the weaker speech by Socrates by saying, “Now you have, first, a negating a contradicting look, and the local color is simply blooming on you: the ‘what do you mean?’ and the reputation for suffering injustice when (I know!) you are doing injustice and working evil” (Aristophanes, 1170-1175). Aristophanes sees the unjust things that philosophers do. They challenge the conventional beliefs of society, not always to a greater end. Reason can support immoral action just as well as it can moral action, and that inconsistency is demonstrated by Aristophanes in the scene where Pheidippides is beating his father and threatens to beat his mother (Aristophanes, 1320-1451). Aristophanes is showing us that the discord and immorality associated with philosophy does nothing but cause problems for the citizens. Therefore, philosophers should be considered dangerous people to a society that values stability such as …show more content…
Obviously, Socrates believes that he does nothing but improve life for Athens. He goes so far as to suggest for his punishment, after being found guilty of the charges, “to be given his meals in the Prytaneum, much more so than if any of you has won a victory at Olympia with a horse or a two- or four-horse chariot. For he makes you happy, while I make you be so” (Plato, 36d-36e). He sees himself as a champion for Athens. He believed that Athens’ system of government was flawed and that they needed a philosopher to point out those flaws. So he took it upon himself to be that philosopher to challenge the government of Athens, betting his own life against the laws which he did not believe were just. Aristophanes holds a polar opposite view of the situation. In The Clouds, the just speech speaks out against the unjust speech which Socrates teaches Pheidippides. The just speech warns Pheidippides that “he will persuade you to believe everything shameful is noble and the noble is shameful” (Aristophanes, 1020-1021). Aristophanes’ claim is that the challenges Socrates makes against the law are not good for the city or society as a whole. Though he might agree that some of the laws of Athens are not just, Aristophanes sees them as necessary to keeping the peace. To him, the philosopher is the one who stirs up rebellion or fights against order. The
Within the many layers of Aristophanes’ comedic play Clouds, the ceaseless conflict between human nature and political virtue is unmistakable. After being expelled from the Thinkery, Strepsiades refuses to give up his cause to evade his creditors and sends his reluctant son Pheidippides to learn the art of rhetoric in his place. Even before venturing to the Thinkery, Pheidippides warns his father that he will severely regret his decision to coerce him into learning with Socrates, a correct prediction. When both Strepsiades and Pheidippides enter the Thinkery, Socrates introduces both the Just Speech and Unjust Speech. Yet, he immediately exits and leaves Pheidippides to observe and “learn them [just and unjust things] himself” (886). The two
Throughout all the years, he never could find anyone as wise as himself, and all he did was make enemies searching. These enemies are now his accusers, and they accuse him of spreading evil doctrines, corrupting the youth, and not believing in the Gods. Throughout the speech, Socrates continues to shoot down every accuser and it is evident that he has done no wrong. Eventually, one of his accusers states that he must be doing something strange and that he wouldnt be that famous if he were like other men. Socrates did not live a very public life unlike most people at that time. His thoughts of being virteous had more to do with examining yourself and becoming a better person and in that way, you benifit society. He did not believe Athens to be virtuos at all, and that they relied on materail things and reputation rather than finding happiness by searching for it deep within
When Strepsiades first arrives at the thinkery, he is met by the student who tells him the sort of things pondered in the thinkery. He told Strepsiades, “Just now Socrates was asking Chaerephon how many of its own feet a flea could leap” (Aristophanes, 144-145). Aristophanes’ goal is to mock Socrates and his followers, but he knows that a true philosopher is constantly pondering new things and questioning everything he examines. One of Socrates’ friends went to the Oracle, and “he asked if there was anyone wiser than I. The Pythia replied that no one was wiser” (Plato, 21a). Due to his knack of questioning everything, Socrates wonders what it could mean since so many people throughout Athens were considered to be wiser than he was. He tells his jury that “when I heard these things, I pondered them like this: ‘What ever is the god saying, and what riddle is he posing?’” (Plato, 21b). A philosopher believes nothing from faith, but only through reason. Therefore, Socrates had to figure out the meaning of what the Oracle said by his
Throughout his comedy, The Clouds, Aristophanes ridicules aspects of Greek society when he destroys tradition by denouncing the importance of the gods' influence on the actions of mortals, and he unknowingly parallels Greek society with today's. Disguised by laughter, he digs deep into the truth by which citizens of Greek and future cultures will abide. Aristophanes challenges humans' strength in belief systems, fortitude of character, and ability to deal with the complexity of parenting. He also defiantly misrepresents an icon like Socrates as comical, atheistic, and consumed by ideas of self interest, which is contradictory to the Socrates seen in Plato's Apology or Phaedo. However different from each other, each writing contained a role for Socrates, which symbolized the messages trying to be conveyed in each. So even if the name is alike, the ultimate purpose of a good character was met.
It is his companions, Glaucon and Adeimantus, who revitalized Thrasymachus’ claim of justice. Thrasymachus believes that justice is what the people who are in charge say it is and from that point on it is Socrates’ goal to prove him wrong. Socrates believes that justice is desired for itself and works as a benefit. All four characters would agree that justice has a benefit. To accurately prove his point of justice, Socrates has to reference his own version of nature and nurture. He, Socrates, believes that justice is innately born in everyone. No one person is incapable of being just. Justice is tantamount to a skill or talent. Like any skill or talent, justice must be nurtured so that it is at its peak and mastered form. The city that Socrates has built is perfect in his eyes because every denizen has been gifted with a talent, then properly educated on how best to use their talent, and lastly able to apply their just morals in everyday
Truth be told there is no real justice in Socrates? ?just city?. Servitude of those within his city is crucial to its function. His citizens are, in every aspect, slaves to the functionality of a city that is not truly their own. True justice can not be achieved through slavery and servitude, that which appears to be justice (and all for the sake of appearances) is all that is achieved. Within Socrates? city there is no room for identity, individuality, equality, or freedom, which are the foundations justice was built upon. These foundations are upheld within a proper democracy. In fact, the closest one can experience justice, on a political level, is through democracy.
When I think of a philosopher, I think of something that gets people to ask questions and think. This is exactly what Socrates did for the people of Athens. He is accused of doing wrong when he is just trying to help advance society. Another thing that makes him a great philosopher is the fact that he sticks to his morals throughout. He has the ability to escape prison, but he knows that would go against all of his teachings.
In the retelling of his trial by his associate, Plato, entitled “The Apology”; Socrates claims in his defense that he only wishes to do good for the polis. I believe that Socrates was innocent of the accusations that were made against him, but he possessed contempt for the court and displayed that in his conceitedness and these actions led to his death.
Socrates was a revolutionary thinker. He brought new ideas and processes of thought to Athenian society and his work still has its place in the world today. However during his time, his ideas were not always thought of as a good thing. Many viewed him as a corrupting influence on other people and accused him of forcing his ideas upon others. Perhaps most frequently the center of controversy was his thoughts on theocracy and piety as seen in the Plato’s Euthyphro. Socrates also appears at the butt end of Aristophanes’ comedy Clouds, where he is satirically ridiculed and seemingly corrupting the youth of Athens in his school, the Thinkery. Although virtually completely seen as a positive influence now, in ancient times, Socrates may have done more harm than good for his society.
The debate between Thrasymachus and Socrates begins when Thrasymachus gives his definition of justice in a very self-interested form. Thrasymachus believes that justice is only present to benefit the ruler, or the one in charge – and for that matter any one in charge can change the meaning of justice to accommodate their needs (343c). Thrasymachus provides a very complex example supporting his claim. He states that the man that is willing to cheat and be unjust to achieve success will be by far the best, and be better than the just man.
At his trial there were two kinds of accusers the ancient and the present. His accusers of the present were Meletus, Anytus, and Lycon, representing their respective fields. They claim that he is corrupting the youth, that he does not believe in the gods of the state, that he is a doer of evil, and that he makes a weaker argument seem stronger. Socrates wished to address all of these accusations and prove his innocence. On the account of corrupting the youth he calls Meletus to the stand for questioning. He basically asks if he is a bad influence on the youth then what would be a good influence. Meletus answers that the law is a fine influence for the youth. Socrates asserts that those who influence the law are only male, then Meletus asserts that the whole population of Athens is a positive influence on the youth. Socrates us...
Socrates refuses to disobey the law. He believes in the correctness of the cities laws. He believes it is never right to act unjustly. He thinks that if you do not agree with the laws of the area that you are living at, then to leave and go somewhere else. He argues that the government could be seen as “his parents, also those who brought him up,” (Crito, 51e), since he has lived there his entire life and when you live somewhere for so long you should “persuade us or to do what we say,” (Crito, 52a) or leave. Socrates tells Crito that
Socrates, according to Plato challenged the norms of society by questioning life and having others question it as well. He was labeled of “corrupting the youth” and for not believing in the Athenians gods. “Socrates is guilty of corrupting the young, and of not acknowledging the gods the city acknowledges, but new daimonic activities instead.” (The Apology, pp 654) Although, he was cast by being “corrupt”, Socrates had many followers that saw him as a wise man. Socrates trial was made up of thirty jurors, who were later known as “The Thirty.” The “Thirty” really wanted was to silence Socrates, rather than taking his life. However, Socrates did not want to disobey the laws, he did not want to be violated of his right to freedom of speech, nor did he did he want to be undermine his moral position. (The Apology, pp. 647) He stood against injustice acts several times while he was in counsel. “I was the sort...
Socrates questions Thrasymachus on why he adds the detail of the stronger to his definition of justice. Socrates than asks, if it is just for everyone to follow the laws that the ruler has made, if the ruler has made unjust laws. His argument is that people, even rulers make mistakes. This meaning that if a ruler makes mistakes on the law does that still make it just. It is a very conflicting argument to think about, if the rules are not just then why should they be followed but the rules were also put in place by someone who is supposed to know the difference between just and unjust and choose correctly. This relates to what Socrates says during his trial portrayed in the Apology. Socrates claims
Socrates was a Greek philosopher who lived from 469-399 B.C.E. Socrates believed that Philosophy was primarily a social activity, which in fact he made use of quite often. He would find himself roaming the streets of Athens questioning the youth or just anyone who would give him the chance to talk to them. Furthermore, Socrates questions drove people absolutely insane, until the point of absolute consternation if you will. He tried proving a point which is quoted “Look, here we are, two ignorant men, yet two, men who desire to know. I am willing to pursue the question seriously if you are” (Palmer, 31).Ultimately, this meant that the person Socrates was questioning actually didn’t know anything at all, just as well as Socrates himself, so which for the both of them would remain in search of the truth.