What is Thrasymachus’ definition of justice and what argument is given to support it. Thrasymachus believes that the definition that justice is what is advantageous for the stronger. Thrasymachus definition quote Thrasymachus defines justice as the advantage of the stronger. “I say justice is nothing other than what is advantageous for the stronger” (338c). Thrasymachus explains how rulers are the most powerful people in the city, who make the laws, which are just therefore making the rulers the stronger. He explains that rulers make laws that will benefit themselves; whether this means they make laws that are just depends on the type of ruler. “democracy makes democratic ones, tyranny tyrannical ones…” (338 10e), he is saying that if one is democratic their laws will be fair and just but if not they will make unfair rules and therefore be unjust. Thrasymachus explains that the reason he thinks that justice is the advantage for the stronger is because the people who rule cities have more power than everyone else and therefore determine what the rules are and what is just. What criticisms does Socrates have of the definition. Socrates says that he needs a better definition Quote from republic. …show more content…
Socrates questions Thrasymachus on why he adds the detail of the stronger to his definition of justice. Socrates than asks, if it is just for everyone to follow the laws that the ruler has made, if the ruler has made unjust laws. His argument is that people, even rulers make mistakes. This meaning that if a ruler makes mistakes on the law does that still make it just. It is a very conflicting argument to think about, if the rules are not just then why should they be followed but the rules were also put in place by someone who is supposed to know the difference between just and unjust and choose correctly. This relates to what Socrates says during his trial portrayed in the Apology. Socrates claims
Upon the summation of the debate between Polemarchus and Socrates, Thrasymachus enters into the fray. He states that justice “is nothing other than advantage of the stronger” (Republic 338c), and also that the greatest life is that of perfect injustice, to be found in the life of a tyrant. This definition leaves no room for the common good because it creates a life of compet...
Initially Thrasymachus states that Justice is ‘nothing else but the interest of the stronger’. Cross and Woozley identify four possible interpretations; the Naturalistic definition, Nihilistic view, Incidental comment, and the more useful Essential analysis. The ‘Essential Analysis’: “An action is just if and only if it serves the interest of the stronger,” with Thrasymachus stating the disadvantages of Justice and advantages of Injustice. This leads to problems with the stronger man, is it merely the promotion of self-interests? If Justice favours the interests of the stronger, is this simply from the perception of the weak with morality not concerning the stronger? Cross re-formulates Thrasymachus’s view as ‘Justice is the promotion of the ‘strongers’ interest’, therefore both weak and strong can act justly in furthering the strongers interests. However, complication occurs when we understand that Justice is another’s good: “You are not aware tha...
In Plato’s Gorgias Callicles states that “the stronger sort of man” can take advantage of the weaker. When he states this I believe he was talking about himself in general because in his eyes he saw himself as strong. He also states “Natural justice is that the better and wiser man should rule over and have more than the inferior.” He states it this way because Socrates gives him an example of how a slave can be stronger physically than his master, and therefore can be considered stronger and take advantage of his master, in which Callicles disagrees with. Thrasymachus states “…justice is nothing else than the interest of the strong…” which goes hand in hand with what Callicles states, and I believe they are both are in agreement towards the stronger being better. However, Thrasymachus believes in the benefit of the stronger “people” as in the society, because he states “stronger” while Callicles believes in the “stronger man.” Thrasymachus explains that the rules benefit the people, it is unjustly to just benefit oneself, but those are the people who can take over the people who act justly. To act just, is to sacrifice your desires, and be taken advantage of indefinitely.
Both Plato and Hobbes present different views of justice in reply to the fool. Plato, claiming one should be just because it is good in itself, where as Hobbes claims being just is good for the pursuit of self-interest or preservation. Despite the difference of opinion on justice between the two philosophers, it is clear that the fool?s statement has been refuted. For there is such a thing as justice despite the differences in how the term is defined.
Have you ever ask yourself how much being unjust impacts your everyday life and decisions, and how your life would change when you are just? Plato wrote in this book’s expect about how Glaucon perceives the basic idea of justice and how we humans perceive justice as. People created own laws and are deciding whether or no to follow them. One of Glaucon’s argument is that we follow justice to get things or because of its consequences. He also argues that we should preserve justice as a way to gain things not to value it for its own sake. The first of Glaucon’s two claims is the descriptive claim which talks about and explains that humans instrumentally value justice instead of intrinsically valuing it.
Thrasymachus said in a meeting with Cephalus, which many of us have attended, that justice are only made to advantage the ruling class and not as profitable as injustice. (The Republic I, 344a-d), which most of us have disagreed and only Socrates defended justice and convinced him. Today let us think only of justice in Socrates’ case. Are we today going to be
Justice, according to Thrasymachus, gives leverage to the more influential people and harms the people that submit to these people. Injustice is the opposite. Injustice rules the “proles”, the “simpleminded” because they are simply just people without any significant value. Thrasymachus also adds that these “just people” would bend over backwards in order to benefit the more influential people in order to make them happy, without any regard for the benefactor’s own happiness. A modern day example of this would be a desperate high school boy doing anything a girl tells them to do just so they could go on a date with her.
Socrates was not guilty as charged; he had done nothing wrong, as seen in the Apology. Not even a priest could tell Socrates what he had done wrong religiously, Euthyphro wasn’t even able to give Socrates a precise definition of piety. It is then questioned by Crito why Socrates would remain to face a penalty for a crime he did not commit. In the Crito, it is explained why, although innocent, Socrates must accept the penalties his peers have set upon him. It is his peers that will interpret and enforce the laws, not the law which will enforce it. Even if the enforcers don’t deserve attention and respect because they have no real knowledge to the situation, Socrates had put himself under their judgment by going to the trial. Therefore, Socrates must respect the decisions made by the masses because the decisions are made to represent the laws, which demand each citizen’s respect.
...s are a paradigm case of those in control. The essence of ruling is, therefore, to be unjust and that is why a tyrant is a perfect ruler. He always knows what is to his advantage and how to acquire it. Thrasymachus’ view of justice is appealing but therein lies a moral danger and this is refuted by Socrates.
Thrasymachus’s main argument is that, “Justice is nothing but the advantage of the stronger” (338c). In other words, Thrasymachus believes justice is advantageous to the stronger because those who behave justly are disadvantaged, and the strong who behave unjustly are advantaged. In his sense injustice is more profitable than justice because it allows people to enjoy benefits they would not obtain if they were to act just.
It is his companions, Glaucon and Adeimantus, who revitalized Thrasymachus’ claim of justice. Thrasymachus believes that justice is what the people who are in charge say it is and from that point on it is Socrates’ goal to prove him wrong. Socrates believes that justice is desired for itself and works as a benefit. All four characters would agree that justice has a benefit. To accurately prove his point of justice, Socrates has to reference his own version of nature and nurture. He, Socrates, believes that justice is innately born in everyone. No one person is incapable of being just. Justice is tantamount to a skill or talent. Like any skill or talent, justice must be nurtured so that it is at its peak and mastered form. The city that Socrates has built is perfect in his eyes because every denizen has been gifted with a talent, then properly educated on how best to use their talent, and lastly able to apply their just morals in everyday
Thrasymachus has just stated, "Justice is nothing other than the advantage of the stronger", and is now, at the request of Socrates, clarifying his statement.
Thrasymachus’s definition of justice is incoherent and hard to conceptualize within the context of the debate. What remains unclear is Thrasymachus’s ideal definition of justice. At first, Thrasymachus definition of justice after passage 338c remains disputable. Justice, Thrasymachus states, “… is simply what is good for the stronger” (338c). Therefore, on its own, this statement could infer that, what can benefit the stronger is just and therefore can be beneficial to the weaker as well. Therefore Thrasymachus definition can be taken in different contexts and used to one’s discretion. Additionally, Thrasymachus changes his definition of justice multiple times during the discussion. Thrasymachus states t...
Each philosopher had a different view on who was considered the “stronger” between the rulers and the ruled. On Nietzsche’s account, justice is the advantage of the “weak” at the time, those in numerical favour. He divided society into the noble who had virtues of war compared to the plebs who believed in peacefulness. He argues that those in power are the ones who are the most unstable due to the fact that they lack survival instincts and the morality of peace and happiness. Thrasymachus has a reverse justification as he chooses those who rule to be the strongest of society. He believes in this due to the fact that the rulers get to create conventions that are to their
Thrasymachus’s theory the justice is the advantage of the stronger is more practical than Socrates and Polemarchus’s positions that helping the good and harming no one is. My justification for Tharasymachu’s theory being more practical is based on the notion that people in power tend to want to stay in power, and people who are not in power want to become more powerful by a substantial amount. With that being said, Tharasymachu’s position works because the people in power tended to pass laws and policies reflecting that said desire of keeping themselves in power. Tharasymachu’s position isn’t necessarily moral in my opinion, but there is strong evidence to support that the notion of justice of one generation has been seen as injustice by the