Wait a second!
More handpicked essays just for you.
More handpicked essays just for you.
Analysis of Thucydides’ melian dialogue
Don’t take our word for it - see why 10 million students trust us with their essay needs.
Recommended: Analysis of Thucydides’ melian dialogue
An Analysis of Thucydides' Views on the Melian Dialogue
The Melian Dialogue is a debate between Melian and Athenian representatives concerning the sovereignty of Melos. The debate did not really occur-the arguments given by each side were of Thucydides own creation. Thus it is reasonable to assume that we can tease out Thucydides' own beliefs. In this paper, I will first extract Thucydides views from the Melian Dialogue and then analyze whether or not these views are well founded.
Thucydides believed that the Athenians had the stronger argument. Proof of this lies in the way Thucydides picked the arguments for each side. For the moment, we will disregard the actual content of the arguments, and look at argumentation forms and the flow of the debate.
The Melians argued using consequences of an Athenian take over. In section 110, the Melians threatened that if their allies the Lacedaemonians were provoked by the takeover of Melos, they might attack Athens itself: "...the Cretan sea is a large place; and the masters of the sea will have more difficulty in overtaking vessels which want to escape than the pursued in escaping. If the attempt should fail they may invade Attica itself, and find their way to allies of yours whom Brasidas did not reach: and then you will have to fight, not for the conquest of a land in which you have no concern, but nearer home, for the preservation of your confederacy and of your own territory." In addition, the Melians complained that they would be thought of as cowards if they surrendered, and they warned the Athenians that hostility would turn other neutral city-states against them.
The Melians offered mere speculation. Their arguments sound like the work of a weak and desperate g...
... middle of paper ...
...ust have had more of the things that the gods cared about. The Melians would have been hard pressed to argue that they had more favor amongst the gods than the Athenians, because anything of virtue that they could claim to have had, the Athenians could claimed to have had but more or better. The Melian argument then that they were favored by the gods and therefore must remain free is inconsistent. If Athens and Melos went to battle against each other, the gods, if they favored anyone, would favor Athens.
We have now examined Thucydides' strongest arguments for Athenian rule. It is clear that Athens had a stronger claim to rule than the Melians had to remain sovereign. We also know that Athens' claims hold up when we examine them for validity. Thucydides beliefs in Athens' claims were therefore well founded.
Works Cited:
The Melian Dialogue, Thucydides
The effects of this go far beyond the imbalance of military power between Athens and her tributaries, however. The Old Oligarch lists four main areas where the existence of the Empire benefits the common people of Athens, thus giving impetus to radicalize democracy and justify the expansion and strengthening of the Empire, and giving is reason to find an ongoing justification for its existence. The first is the building of the disproportionately large Athenian navy. Second is the overall flattening of the Athenian social pyramid, raising the relative status of the lowest classes of society, and exemplified by the way that Athens becomes a magnet for aliens to live and work, and gives unusual freedom and opportunity to slaves. Third is that the allies are compelled to have their court cases tried in Athenian courts, bringing both prestige and financial reward to Athens. Finally, the centralizing effect of these things, and the obvious maritime nature of the Empire, make Athens a trading center, m...
Throughout Aristophanes’ “Clouds” there is a constant battle between old and new. It makes itself apparent in the Just and Unjust speech as well as between father and son. Ultimately, Pheidippides, whom would be considered ‘new’, triumphs over the old Strepsiades, his father. This is analogous to the Just and Unjust speech. In this debate, Just speech represents the old traditions and mores of Greece while the contrasting Unjust speech is considered to be newfangled and cynical towards the old. While the defeat of Just speech by Unjust speech does not render Pheidippides the ability to overcome Strepsiades, it is a parallel that may be compared with many other instances in Mythology and real life.
In the Melian Dialogue, it describes the negotiation between the people of Athens and the people of Melos. The people of Melos wants their independence and the Athenians who wanted to invade and expand their territory. “Because you would have the advantage of submitting before suffering the worst, and we should gain by not destroying you”. The Athenians were giving the Melian leadership an ultimatum. They could surrender or the Athenians would take over. “While the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must”. The Athenians are demonstrating dictatorial actions on the Melians. There is also evidence in that again in the Athenian dialogue. “Of the gods we believe, and of men we know, that by a necessary law of their nature they rule wherever they can. All we do is to make use of it, knowing that you and everybody else, having the same power as we have would do the same as we do”. The Athenians believe that it is their right to take over the Melians and any country they would like to control because they
... weaker state will remain neutral from a military strength. Melians’ loss reaffirms the absolute power of imperial conquests and nationalism in theories of realism. Since the Melians were allied with the Spartans and failed to cooperate, it is justifiable that the Athenians had the right to want to rule and invade the Melians as means to protect their own strengths.
In 480 and the years prior the Athenians and Spartans, banned together to defeat the Persian Army. The Spartans stand at Thermopylae, allow the Athenians time to prepare, and ultimately allow the victory. With both of these great city-states located so close together in Hellas, their differences would ultimately lead to dissension. Throughout the course of this paper, I hope to explain the reasoning behind the dissension between Sparta and Athens, which made war between these former allies inevitable. Whenever there is an argument or war, there is always a difference between both parties involved.
Thrasymachus, tired of holding his tongue back, barges into the argument and asks Socrates exactly what justice is; since Socrates cannot answer Thrasymachus offers his perception:
Thucydides was right to claim that all wars can be explained by Fear, Honor, and Interest. All Wars are related to the three characteristics as stated by Dr. Nation (Dr. Nation video). The Athenians thought process was that the weak would be ruled by the strong and that was the nature of conflict (Strassler p. 43). Looking at the Peloponnesian war itself will illustrate how fear, honor and interest were involved with how this war developed. The initial unnamed Athenian that made that statement was probably using it to deter war with Sparta when it mostly incited the war (Dr. Nation Video). The Athenians wanted to maintain and sustain their city state but also expand it. They were expanding through their alliances and this is what invoked the
Thrasymachus begins this debate by claiming, “the just is nothing other than the advantage of the stronger” (15). He provides further explanation, while introducing the different ruling groups of cities, where each “sets down laws for its own advantage,” which is he claims is “just for the ruled”. These claims are clearly presented in spite, following Thrasymachus’ gross criticizing of Socrates’ method of argument, while referring to him “disgusting” (16). Socrates grants “that the just is something of advantage,” he questions whether it is necessarily the
In the years following the Persian Wars in 479 B.C., Athens had come out on top being the most dominantly powerful of any Greek city with a navy that had superior strength that increased day by day. The Athenians “ruled with heavy-handed, even brutal force as well as with reason” (Kagan 2). This was due largely to the fact that Athens had a stable and effective government, which only increased their advantage in proving themselv...
Let us firstly analyze and delineate the significant instances in the interchange between the unjust speech and the unjust speech. Both the unjust and just speech begin this interchange with a heavy slandering of one another. Perhaps, one of the most notable moments of this slander is when the just speech, after claiming that it believes in and stands for justice and is hence “speaking the just things”, is asked by the unjust speech that “denies that justice even exists” to “answer the following question, if justice truly exists, then why didn’t Zeus perish when he bound his father?” (p. 152, 901-905). The just speech replies to this question by exclaiming that “...this is the evil that’s spreading around” and that he needs “a basin” if he is to continue hearing it (p. 152, 906-907). Firstly the just speech, as a mouthpiece for the existing Athenian legal-political convention, has claimed that this legal-political convention is where justice in its entirety is to be found. Secondly and simultaneously, however, the just speech finds itself unable to articulate what it means by justice and how the teachings of the Homeric Gods, that have informed the construction of Athenian political convention, are positive and/or negative examples of an
Thucydides’ Mytilenean Debate is an attempt to represent a fifth-century rhetoric in action. Such rhetoric is heavily influenced by an Athenian speech tradition of sophism or persuasive speech. Thucydides chooses Cleon and Deodotus to represent the opposite sides of the debate. Cleon, who argues for putting Mytileneans to death, is described as the most violent man in Athens. Deodotus argues against putting Mityleneans to death and uses rhetoric to persuade Athenians for a more rational and responsible decision.
For example, in the Persian Wars, Pericles stood up among all citizens and led them into battle. Citizens gave him power and allowed him to gain control. Furthermore, when Athens conquered any territory, the owners of that land would become subject to Athenian Citizens, further showing that some citizens boasted more power than others. In the Melian Dialogue it states, "At the moment we shall prove that we have come in the interest of our empire and that in what we shall say we are seeking that safety of your state; for we wish you to become our subjects with the least trouble to ourselves" (27). In this quote, the Athenian army is trying to convince the Melians to surrender and become subjects within their empire. However, if all people are considered equal, then the Athenians are going against their beliefs. Furthermore, there were multiple restrictions on becoming a citizen. A citizen must be a free male eighteen years or older, owner of land, and his parents must be citizens as well. This showed that citizens were considered above all other settlers in Athens. Although the Athenians claimed to contain a Democratic society where all people are equal, throughout their empire, people gradually gained power as more regions were
The political atmosphere of Classical Athens was one to behold on a global scale. A style government that had not been so much as thought of anywhere else in the world was flourishing in the powerful polis, and proved to be the backbone of its success in the ancient world. Democracy did away with the tyrants, monarchs, and oligarchs of the past and instead offered a voice to every man in the state who so chose to participate. Many cities of the ancient world would shudder at the thought of offering a voice to commoners, and even the poverty stricken; but the Athenian mindset was prideful in the notion that any citizen of the great city was competent enough to take part in civil discourse and furthermore
Therefore, Melos is highly vulnerable to being seized by Athens. The high-power held by Athenians and Melos being a small colony, do not succour the Melians. However, in this case, the size of Melos does not impact or define the Melians’ strength. The Melians’ confidence and rectitude are what delineates their strength against the Athenians who were looked upon as unassailable. The Melians portray their strength against all odds by maintaining an ethos that favours what is righteous. Despite the Athenians representation of themselves as being more dominant, the Melians’ virtuous ideologies give them the capacity of defying the Athenians, consequently subjugating the Athenians’ ability to
In the book, “History of the Peloponnesian War”, Thucydides cleverly applies the newly coined Greek word, δεμαγωγός. In this essay, I will attempt to give a literal account of how the word was constructed, what this newly coined term means, and how the Athenians could have reacted to such a term.